Purchased a Trios 5 and the Sprint Ray Printer/Ecosystem from Cad-Ray at the end of 2022. Frank Deluca, my CAD-Ray rep, was instrumental in helping me see the value in purchasing both technologies to expand on my digital dental office. He came ac...read morePurchased a Trios 5 and the Sprint Ray Printer/Ecosystem from Cad-Ray at the end of 2022. Frank Deluca, my CAD-Ray rep, was instrumental in helping me see the value in purchasing both technologies to expand on my digital dental office. He came across as being very sincere and professional throughout the entire process. After the purchase, he even made himself available to go above and beyond what a normal dental rep would do. For instance, when I had my Sprint Ray Ecosystem installed, he set aside time on a Friday afternoon to walk me through the steps to print my first 3D study models. I would say he is one of the best dental reps that I have come across. Definitely received a 5 star experience and service from Frank. He is definitely and asset to CAD-Ray.read less - 1/25/2023
Harrison MacKenzie
Purchased Medit i700 from Frank/CAD-Ray and everything has been absolutely top-notch! Great service, quick responses, great training. Very happy with CAD-Ray and our i700! - 10/20/2022
Chirag Vaid
I ordered my Medit scanner from them in Feb 2020, so far no issues with support or the product. They are a great company with great support. Disclosure: they did promise me a scanner tip for this review, but in all honestly I was meaning to give it t...read moreI ordered my Medit scanner from them in Feb 2020, so far no issues with support or the product. They are a great company with great support. Disclosure: they did promise me a scanner tip for this review, but in all honestly I was meaning to give it to them anyway.... if you are looking to buy, this is a great way to go about it.read less - 7/19/2020
Peipei Yu
I purchased a Medit scanner in August and I am very happy with the scanner. I was trained on an Omnicam in dental school and used Omnicam for 4 years in my associateship. The speed and quality of the Medit scanner is comparable to a CEREC scanner but...read moreI purchased a Medit scanner in August and I am very happy with the scanner. I was trained on an Omnicam in dental school and used Omnicam for 4 years in my associateship. The speed and quality of the Medit scanner is comparable to a CEREC scanner but you can’t beat the price of the Medit! I would highly recommend this if you are a beginner or pro in digital dentistry!read less - 9/22/2020
Mark Gerome
When I bought my first scanner a few years ago I was blown away by CAD-RAY’s support! They do a great job of getting you and your team ready to go with it. Frank D. has been a huge help with getting us confident with our scanners and making sure we a...read moreWhen I bought my first scanner a few years ago I was blown away by CAD-RAY’s support! They do a great job of getting you and your team ready to go with it. Frank D. has been a huge help with getting us confident with our scanners and making sure we are taken care of. He and his colleagues at CAD-RAY are always a responsive to our calls. Thank you!read less - 2/21/2023
Roy Elturk
Outstanding customer service! Laura helped me purchase my first Trios scanner and she took the time to go over all the specs, models, and details with me. Their on going tech support is what sets this company a part from others. - 3/05/2024
Kayla Dobmeier
Customer service is truly the best I've seen. You don't just buy a product from them. There are hundreds of hours of training videos, and they have answered any question we have had in a matter of minutes. We are so glad we purchased our IO scanner t...read moreCustomer service is truly the best I've seen. You don't just buy a product from them. There are hundreds of hours of training videos, and they have answered any question we have had in a matter of minutes. We are so glad we purchased our IO scanner through them!read less - 4/09/2021
Daniel Eley
I just bought the new Medit i700. I placed the order on Friday, it shipped on Monday, and it arrived on Tuesday. So far it has been a great experience. They also provide a lot of quality videos for learning to use the scanner. - 5/05/2021
Micah Bickel
Great products, training and support - 11/01/2021
Russell Schafer
Overall great company to work with. They sell wondeful products and give stellar service for a much lower price than any of the supply houses. I can't recommend them enough. - 8/19/2022
Nisarg Parikh
Absolutely a phenomenal company. Everyone you engage with is extremely knowledgeable and helpful.I’m sure they get the same questions day in, day out but they are happy to help you without being condescending. The entire team has been helpful through...read moreAbsolutely a phenomenal company. Everyone you engage with is extremely knowledgeable and helpful.I’m sure they get the same questions day in, day out but they are happy to help you without being condescending. The entire team has been helpful through phone calls, the Cad-Ray FB group, and recorded webinars. Jonathan helped me get a great deal, Laura was awesome on the webinar, Damien is always answering questions on FB, and Armen had a great in-person presentation in Dallas. 100% recommend.read less - 4/22/2022
John Pisacane
This is my second review. I posted the first after having Medit for about 9 months. Loved it then, had great success with using the scanner to take full arch scans for clear aligner therapy, study models, removable partials, and crown and bridge. ...read moreThis is my second review. I posted the first after having Medit for about 9 months. Loved it then, had great success with using the scanner to take full arch scans for clear aligner therapy, study models, removable partials, and crown and bridge. Have kept using it and am still very happy with the Medit and with Cad-Ray. The scanner takes care of so many things in a way that impresses patients and pleases lab techs. Whenever I hit a computer glitch, I call Armen, Frank or any other members of the gang and my problems are solved quickly and without drama.read less - 6/16/2020
Update to CAD-Ray as this company has morphed into something even better and grander than it was previously. This is the company where you go to when you need a scanner or 3d printer. Their customer service is second to none and their training on sca...read moreUpdate to CAD-Ray as this company has morphed into something even better and grander than it was previously. This is the company where you go to when you need a scanner or 3d printer. Their customer service is second to none and their training on scanners is top level. Don't buy your scanners anywhere else because Cad-Ray is the only company who knows how to solve any of your problems and provides the best technical support. I recently had purchased a software to mill crowns from my medit to my MCXL. No body could get it to work.12 months in and I was resigned to it not working and not being able to mill in house. With Cad-Ray's tremendous hard work, we were able to get the milling unit synchronized to the inlab and inlab synchronized to clinux and clinux meshed to medit. I am now milling scanned crowns for the first time in about 12 months. Yay Cad-Ray, Thank you!!!!!read less - 4/01/2024
Collins Woodside
I purchased my Medit i500 scanner almost a year ago from CAD-Ray. Laura and the team there have been so responsive and ready to help. It is so nice to have a person answer the phone and be willing and able to assist! - 12/09/2021
Thanh Huynh
I am beyond impressed with Destaney and Cad-Ray! Despite accidentally throwing away my old scanner, which I was supposed to return, their team went above and beyond to advocate for me. Their exceptional support and understanding turned a stressful si...read moreI am beyond impressed with Destaney and Cad-Ray! Despite accidentally throwing away my old scanner, which I was supposed to return, their team went above and beyond to advocate for me. Their exceptional support and understanding turned a stressful situation into a seamless experience. Highly recommend!read less - 8/02/2024
Jordan Bower
Frank helped me out when 3dbiocad could not help me with my trios issue. Thank you cad-ray. - 9/10/2024
Ashley Guarisco
Cad-Ray's customer service has been amazing since day one! From getting a quote to setting everything up and doing my first scan. Everyone has been super helpful! Heather Gramley has been awesome, it's like having a tech in my back pocket! They offer...read moreCad-Ray's customer service has been amazing since day one! From getting a quote to setting everything up and doing my first scan. Everyone has been super helpful! Heather Gramley has been awesome, it's like having a tech in my back pocket! They offer tons of training videos and offer one on one training. I would 10/10 recommend them for all of your scanning needs!read less - 11/21/2022
Steven Cisternas
The future of digital dentistry is here now. Cad-ray provides all the tools needed to make it possible for us to provide digital care to our patients. Thanks Damien and Armen for a great course. - 8/07/2021
Jorge Gonzalez
Armen is a dentist and knows what a dentist need, on other words cad ray sells technology that works for dentists! - 6/16/2020
North Bakersfield Dental
Excellent customer service and product!! - 3/16/2022
Shant Aharonian
Cad-ray has to be the best company to work with when it comes to digital dentistry solutions. Here are the reasons why:
1. Experience. Everyone in the company has extensive experience in dentistry. They have used all digital platforms and offer cust...read moreCad-ray has to be the best company to work with when it comes to digital dentistry solutions. Here are the reasons why:
1. Experience. Everyone in the company has extensive experience in dentistry. They have used all digital platforms and offer customers first hand experience.
2. Honesty. Based on their experience they share all the good/bad of different systems. They work with you to find a solution that works best for you. Not sell you the piece of the equipment that gives them the biggest commission.
3. Support. Cad-ray offers the missing piece of the dentist/digital manufacturer puzzle. Many other distributors sell you a piece of equipment but don’t have true day-to-day experience with that equipment. Cad-ray’s team openly share their expertise to help customers optimize their workflows with great technology.
4. Passion. The Cad-ray team is extremely passionate about their craft. They truly believe in what they have to offer.
I took Armen Mirzayan’s course on intraoral scanning and it was truly mind blowing. Armen’s insights will help any dentist optimize their craft. I purchased the full sprintray 3d printing ecosystem the help of Frank. I plan to purchase more equipment from cad-ray.
Also, Jesse is a genius in regards to all aspect of digital workflows. I’m truly grateful for this company and everyone who I’ve worked with so far.read less - 10/07/2022
Luciana Bretz-Pavie
Wayne Glassoff is the go-to guy here! The BEST!!! He is always on it, he helps figuring out exactly what you need, the best way possible. And fast! Great working with CAD-Ray, they have pretty much everything when it comes to digital dentistry. And t...read moreWayne Glassoff is the go-to guy here! The BEST!!! He is always on it, he helps figuring out exactly what you need, the best way possible. And fast! Great working with CAD-Ray, they have pretty much everything when it comes to digital dentistry. And they give you a damn good support too. Jessica Knott is awesome… training and support, just the BEST! Very satisfied customer here!read less - 2/05/2023
Barton Davis
Every time I need support for my scanner, the Cad-Ray team is there to help. I recently had a question on how to manipulate a scan and export it back to Medit Scan. Damien logged in and helped me out. Problem solved in under five minutes. Awesome ser...read moreEvery time I need support for my scanner, the Cad-Ray team is there to help. I recently had a question on how to manipulate a scan and export it back to Medit Scan. Damien logged in and helped me out. Problem solved in under five minutes. Awesome service. Thanks Cad-Ray support team!read less - 3/04/2022
Ajitha Gereddy
We purchased Medit i-500 with CAD ray last December and customer support is great.One of best thing for our practice is having intra oral scanner ,works great . Laura was very patient with our learning curve. - 12/10/2021
Nolan Andrews
They all go absolutely above and beyond in all aspects. Whether it's tech support, products, CE, everything. Everyone I have dealt with has been wonderful. Love these guys! - 6/19/2020
Thomas Lim
5 stars for a great product and great service. After much research I knew I was set on the Medit 500. I considered some of my local equipment reps, as well as cad-ray. Cad-ray won out due to their efficiency, speed of service, and knowledge. Their on...read more5 stars for a great product and great service. After much research I knew I was set on the Medit 500. I considered some of my local equipment reps, as well as cad-ray. Cad-ray won out due to their efficiency, speed of service, and knowledge. Their online presence makes it easy to get help via messaging, social media, or phone. The fact that one of the employees of Medit (an engineer?) posts on the cad-Ray Facebook group speaks volumes of the vendor-mfg relations.
The scanner itself works great, but make sure to contact them to get the minimum specs required for a laptop — it will make a difference in how the scanner performs. I had some slow scans at first but upgraded from 8gb to 32gb ram and also got some coaching from customer service (Frank) to get me up to speed.
To make the scanner mobile, I purchased this cart from Staples: https://www.staples.com/Oklahoma-Sound-Premium-Audio-Visual-Presentation-Cart-40-1-2-H-x-18-W-x-30-D-Black-Ivory-Wood/product_932437.
Lastly, I purchased “3M Dual Lock Fastener” to keep the power module attached to the wand from falling off the cart. I carry the scanner between two offices, so I wanted something sturdy, but removable. (see in photos). The hockey puck shaped holder (comes with the scanner) is heavy and sticks to the countertop without needing any adhesive.read less - 10/12/2019
I purchased my medit i500 scanner about a year ago from CAD Ray, and I have been extremely happy with both the scanner and the service / support.
Armen and Frank consider your purchase to be the beginning of your relationship with them, not...read moreI purchased my medit i500 scanner about a year ago from CAD Ray, and I have been extremely happy with both the scanner and the service / support.
Armen and Frank consider your purchase to be the beginning of your relationship with them, not the end. They do their best to make sure you learn everything you need to know in order to get the best possible results .
They answer calls and messages promptly, and it never takes me very long to get my questions answered.
I am VERY glad I bought from them, and not from one of the "big box" Dental Mega retailers.read less - 10/09/2019
Just got my Medit i700 from CAD-Ray and experienced what everyone raves about, the level of customer service by CAD-Ray. As you know you can buy this scanner from a lot of places but they won't offer you help and support. They called my cell and conn...read moreJust got my Medit i700 from CAD-Ray and experienced what everyone raves about, the level of customer service by CAD-Ray. As you know you can buy this scanner from a lot of places but they won't offer you help and support. They called my cell and connected to my laptop and configured everything at 7 PM.. Great great experience.read less - 12/08/2021
Brent Hale
Been using my i700 for a month now and it's been great. The tutorials that Cad-ray provides have been very helpful. This scanner with a fast computer turns out great results. - 11/01/2021
Worked with Laura and she is incredibly knowledgeable. She gave me all the right advice and steered me in the right direction. Her ongoing support is as good as it gets. I feel like I have a 24 hour team at my beckoning call. For the meat and pot...read moreWorked with Laura and she is incredibly knowledgeable. She gave me all the right advice and steered me in the right direction. Her ongoing support is as good as it gets. I feel like I have a 24 hour team at my beckoning call. For the meat and potatoes. I got an Icam 4D from her and now I am printing all on 4 arches same day surgery at our practice in Denver(NUSET). We are going to put ICams and Trios’ in all our offices thanks to Laura and the Cad-Ray team. If you have any questions about the workflow and the success we are having with the Digital work flow call Laura and I will help you succeed with her product support.Thank you Laura and Cad-Ray!read less - 4/28/2022
Lake Shore Dental of Tempe
Absolutely the best customer service I have ever seen. I couldn't be happier with the service received. I won't be going anywhere else!! Thank you again. - 2/01/2022
Northwest Orthodontics
Every staff member has been very helpful and kind every time we call. Thank you! - 7/24/2024
Miguel DeLeon
I seriously can't believe the amount of support I get from Cad-Ray. I bought a medit scanner 2 months ago through Laura and she was very quick to get it shipped to me. She helped me through the whole process and ensured that I was passed to the right...read moreI seriously can't believe the amount of support I get from Cad-Ray. I bought a medit scanner 2 months ago through Laura and she was very quick to get it shipped to me. She helped me through the whole process and ensured that I was passed to the right people to train me. They were always available whenever I called, even one time I ran into an emergency after hours and Kaila picked up and saved the night. Very cool how they can remote access to my computer and guide me through as if they were right next to me.I also recently bought an Ackuretta Sol printer with Laura's help and she got me paired up with Jessica for my printer training. Jessica is so awesome! She is very knowledgeable and guided me through a lot of troubleshooting and set me up for success.Thank you guys so much!! I will always refer my friends to you all.read less - 4/13/2022
Archstone Weatherford
Medit i700 intraoral scanner is the first scanner that I actually used on my patients. Before I put my hands on it, I had some prejudices against all scanners. They were bulky, laggy in capturing the images, etc. When I finally had the chance to use ...read moreMedit i700 intraoral scanner is the first scanner that I actually used on my patients. Before I put my hands on it, I had some prejudices against all scanners. They were bulky, laggy in capturing the images, etc. When I finally had the chance to use an intraoral scanner and get introductory training with Laura from CAD-RAY a few weeks ago, I totally changed my view of this product. Very soon, I was able to scan crown, bridge, and even denture cases. Of course, I have had some knowledge about the digital scanner from CEs provided in the past, but being able to apply it in the daily practice in such a short time was beyond my expectations. I would highly recommend MEDIT i700 and training from CAD-RAY.
Big thanks to Laura!
-Lei Fu, D.D.S.read less - 9/12/2021
I ordered a VHF N4+ from CadRay. About two weeks after the order was placed, they called me up and said, “VHF just got an exclusive with “The Big Boys” so they are cutting ties with all the little ind...read moreI’d like to tell you a story about CAD-Ray.com.
I ordered a VHF N4+ from CadRay. About two weeks after the order was placed, they called me up and said, “VHF just got an exclusive with “The Big Boys” so they are cutting ties with all the little independent distributors. They just called us, and we just found out. What this means is that we won’t be able to provide you service after purchasing the VHF mill that you just bought.”
Now, they could have just left it at that. They could have said, “Sorry, it’s out of our hands.” They could have said, “We appreciate your business, but it’s not our fault.” They could have said, “That’s the way the cookie crumbles.”
But they didn’t.
Frank Weinstein calls me up and tells me that they want to make this right, so they are going to hook me up with a brand new Imes Coritec One+ for the same price as the VHF. The Coritec One+ is like the Mercedes of mills for in-office. This is the new model that just barely came out. It is a 5 axis mill. It does wet and dry milling. It does blocks and pucks. It mills all materials know to man, including Vibranium. It can also fly the space shuttle, and make all your wishes and dreams come true. It’s that good. It came with the laptop, Exocad, all the tools, and all the bells and whistles. It came fully loaded. It came white glove delivered to my office. It came with in office training. It came with the extra bur package. It came with everything and the kitchen sink.
So, I paid 36k for a mill, and because of something that was not Cad-Rays fault, they ended up giving me a 60k mill for the same price.
In the words of the great Tony Stark: “That’s how Dad did it. That’s how Cad-Ray does it. And it’s worked out pretty well so far.”
Thank you Frank Weinstein and Armen Mirzayan for having outstanding customer service and going the extra mile every time.read less - 4/02/2021
Monika Reyes
For a few years I have been hesitating to get an intra oral scanner. I finally made the decision to get one and it turned out to be the best purchase I made in 2021!I love my Medit i700! - 11/23/2021
Just got my Medit IOS delivered last week and the service from Jon was great! I had a ton of questions before placing the order and he happily answered. This is the type of customer support many dental suppliers are missing. Great company to work wit...read moreJust got my Medit IOS delivered last week and the service from Jon was great! I had a ton of questions before placing the order and he happily answered. This is the type of customer support many dental suppliers are missing. Great company to work with.read less - 6/23/2020
John T
Frank and the CAD-Ray crew are awesome! They are always available for support with the technology you purchase from them. - 1/25/2023
Adam Bond
Purchased a Medit i500 from CAD-Ray earlier this year and I really like the scannner. It has great features at a great price point. And the support of the CAD-Ray team has been awesome. They have a great amount of online resources for the DIYers and ...read morePurchased a Medit i500 from CAD-Ray earlier this year and I really like the scannner. It has great features at a great price point. And the support of the CAD-Ray team has been awesome. They have a great amount of online resources for the DIYers and have helpful employees to help after the sale as well. I highly recommend them.read less - 6/16/2020
Zachary Breen
I purchased the Medit i700 from CAD-Ray back in May and the purchasing process, setting-up and trouble shooting has been extremely easy and straight forward with CAD-Ray. The Medit i700 is one of the best, if not the best, scanner I have used in the ...read moreI purchased the Medit i700 from CAD-Ray back in May and the purchasing process, setting-up and trouble shooting has been extremely easy and straight forward with CAD-Ray. The Medit i700 is one of the best, if not the best, scanner I have used in the past 5 years of using intraoral scanners. Recently I ran into a software issues with my scanner and I am extremely impressed with CAD-Ray and Medit's timely manner in addressing my issue. Within minutes I was on the phone with them and they had my concerns addressed and solved. I previously recommended a few colleagues to CAD-Ray and I will continue to recommend with even greater enthusiasm. I am very pleased with their customer service and the Medit i700. Thank you CAD-Ray!read less - 9/30/2021
Amazing support and install, Jesse went through everything and made sure I was comfortable with my equipment before leaving. He also introduced me to the world of anodizing and now I am hooked! Highly recommend them for any tech you may need. - 8/23/2022
Dixie Jernigan
The customer service we have received while working with Frank DeLuca is second to none! He is incredibly knowledgeable and enthusiastic, as well as always available to help with any issues. We are very pleased with CAD-RAY and relationship that they...read moreThe customer service we have received while working with Frank DeLuca is second to none! He is incredibly knowledgeable and enthusiastic, as well as always available to help with any issues. We are very pleased with CAD-RAY and relationship that they have with their clients.read less - 1/25/2023
Daniel Thrall
I have owned this scanner for six months now. I have experience with other scanners including Trios and Carestream. The Medit scanner can stand with the big names. The scanned images are good. The ease of communication through the software with the l...read moreI have owned this scanner for six months now. I have experience with other scanners including Trios and Carestream. The Medit scanner can stand with the big names. The scanned images are good. The ease of communication through the software with the lab is probably my favorite part. Another thing I like is that the company is very open to improvements and listens to what its customers are wanting.
Cad Ray has a great team working alongside this product and continually updates all of the users on new features or new ways to use existing features. They are extremely responsive to questions and provide fast and competent support to the product that they sell.
I would recommend both the scanner and the company to anyone looking to get into the digital scanning world.read less - 10/09/2019
I got my 3Dshape scanner, great support , my training with Destany was excellent. Great team!! - 2/15/2024
Kurt Adamson
I purchased My first Medit i500 in Sept 2019, fairly easy to set up and learn. I was able to follow the instructions and videos without a problem. I learned tips and trick along the way by following the facebook groups. Anytime help was needed the g...read moreI purchased My first Medit i500 in Sept 2019, fairly easy to set up and learn. I was able to follow the instructions and videos without a problem. I learned tips and trick along the way by following the facebook groups. Anytime help was needed the group at Cad-Ray were quick and sincere finding a solution to problems. I ended up purchasing 2 more i500's in Dec 2019 for my other 2 offices. I didn't think I would enjoy the digital workflow as much as I do. If you on the fence like i was, just do it. get on the facebook groups and post the tips you learn along the way.read less - 1/17/2020
Couldn't be happier with the support I've gotten from these guys. Trouble-shooting a problem real time so you can call a patient and get them right back in with a solution is extremely hard customer service to match. Thanks a ton and no question wher...read moreCouldn't be happier with the support I've gotten from these guys. Trouble-shooting a problem real time so you can call a patient and get them right back in with a solution is extremely hard customer service to match. Thanks a ton and no question where I'll be going for any more purchases!read less - 10/06/2021
I had been on the market for a scanner for a while and the i700 is my first intraoral scanner purchase. We are still new to the scanning world and its capabilities. Frank DeLuca was my main contact from the beginning and the person who did our traini...read moreI had been on the market for a scanner for a while and the i700 is my first intraoral scanner purchase. We are still new to the scanning world and its capabilities. Frank DeLuca was my main contact from the beginning and the person who did our training. The scanner is incredible and has surpassed our expectations even though we haven’t used it to its full potential yet. Frank has been amazing and always there to guide us every step of the way. Having such fabulous customer service and support from CAD-Ray was key for us when making this purchase decision. Thank you!read less - 6/23/2022
Arielle Forbes
Just got my Medit IOS delivered last week and the service from Jon was great! I had a ton of questions before placing the order and he happily answered. This is the type of customer support many dental suppliers are missing. Great company to work wit...read moreJust got my Medit IOS delivered last week and the service from Jon was great! I had a ton of questions before placing the order and he happily answered. This is the type of customer support many dental suppliers are missing. Great company to work with.read less - 6/19/2020
SCOTT MEUSELBACH
I bought a Medit i700 and admittedly did not use it for a year or so. Once I got going on it, I now hate analog impressions (time, lab time, expense, questions of quality, etc). I had a cord go bad (fray) and could not scan. I called and spoke to Hea...read moreI bought a Medit i700 and admittedly did not use it for a year or so. Once I got going on it, I now hate analog impressions (time, lab time, expense, questions of quality, etc). I had a cord go bad (fray) and could not scan. I called and spoke to Heather, and she was outstanding in providing service. I texted a pic, she corresponded with Medit, and they got a new one to me the next day. Tracking, email correspondence, etc. all was provided there as well. I was back up and running in no time, and having to do some analog impressions made me realize how much we love the scanner. The service from Heather and Medit (Dane) verified it. I sent a text out to a pile of dental friends to let them know as well. Highly recommended!read less - 7/10/2024
Shilpa Jobanputra
New user and absolutely love my Medit i500 scanner. Easy to use, fast, affordable and so quick for a first timer IOS user like myself. Customer service is fantastic, as are the sales people. It’s good to know you have strong knowledgeable people beh...read moreNew user and absolutely love my Medit i500 scanner. Easy to use, fast, affordable and so quick for a first timer IOS user like myself. Customer service is fantastic, as are the sales people. It’s good to know you have strong knowledgeable people behind the scenes ready to help at every turn. I would recommend this product highly. Happy in PAread less - 9/09/2020