David JumpI can't even find the words to express how incredible CAD-Ray has been with their customer service. I've never worked with a company in ANY industry that has been as helpful and responsive at they have been. Based on their customer service alone I ... read moreI can't even find the words to express how incredible CAD-Ray has been with their customer service. I've never worked with a company in ANY industry that has been as helpful and responsive at they have been. Based on their customer service alone I would buy every piece of equipment I ever needed from them if they sold it. Truly a unique experience! Oh, and the medit i500 has been fantastic, super accurate and patients are blown away by digital impressions. Love it, great product and incredible customer service read less - 12/09/2021
Brent Hale
Been using my i700 for a month now and it's been great. The tutorials that Cad-ray provides have been very helpful. This scanner with a fast computer turns out great results. - 11/01/2021
Medit i700
Dr. Howard LassinGreat 1st lesson with Ryan on the Mediti700. We are ready to scan:) - 12/30/2022
Jose MoralesService is extremely quick and on point. Highly recommended to join the Cad Ray facebook group! - 6/01/2022Ellen Huang
Armen created series of these very helpful videos. They helped us tremendously in breaking into the new scanner we purchased. No matter you just got into digital dentistry or you are quite experienced with different fields of data acquiring or treatm... read moreArmen created series of these very helpful videos. They helped us tremendously in breaking into the new scanner we purchased. No matter you just got into digital dentistry or you are quite experienced with different fields of data acquiring or treatment planning, you will find those being tremendous help. read less - 5/24/2020
CAD-Ray.com Membership
Lauren SchulteFrank and the CAD-Ray team are fantastic! They go above and beyond to help their doctors be successful. The CAD-Ray team doesn't just sell you a product and leave you high and dry. Frank is always ready to answer questions and offer support when need... read moreFrank and the CAD-Ray team are fantastic! They go above and beyond to help their doctors be successful. The CAD-Ray team doesn't just sell you a product and leave you high and dry. Frank is always ready to answer questions and offer support when needed. I highly recommend! read less - 1/24/2023Mark Evans
I’d like to tell you a story about CAD-Ray.com.
I ordered a VHF N4+ from CadRay. About two weeks after the order was placed, they called me up and said, “VHF just got an exclusive with “The Big Boys” so they are cutting ties with all the little ind... read moreI’d like to tell you a story about CAD-Ray.com.
I ordered a VHF N4+ from CadRay. About two weeks after the order was placed, they called me up and said, “VHF just got an exclusive with “The Big Boys” so they are cutting ties with all the little independent distributors. They just called us, and we just found out. What this means is that we won’t be able to provide you service after purchasing the VHF mill that you just bought.”
Now, they could have just left it at that. They could have said, “Sorry, it’s out of our hands.” They could have said, “We appreciate your business, but it’s not our fault.” They could have said, “That’s the way the cookie crumbles.”
But they didn’t.
Frank Weinstein calls me up and tells me that they want to make this right, so they are going to hook me up with a brand new Imes Coritec One+ for the same price as the VHF. The Coritec One+ is like the Mercedes of mills for in-office. This is the new model that just barely came out. It is a 5 axis mill. It does wet and dry milling. It does blocks and pucks. It mills all materials know to man, including Vibranium. It can also fly the space shuttle, and make all your wishes and dreams come true. It’s that good. It came with the laptop, Exocad, all the tools, and all the bells and whistles. It came fully loaded. It came white glove delivered to my office. It came with in office training. It came with the extra bur package. It came with everything and the kitchen sink.
So, I paid 36k for a mill, and because of something that was not Cad-Rays fault, they ended up giving me a 60k mill for the same price.
In the words of the great Tony Stark: “That’s how Dad did it. That’s how Cad-Ray does it. And it’s worked out pretty well so far.”
Thank you Frank Weinstein and Armen Mirzayan for having outstanding customer service and going the extra mile every time. read less - 4/02/2021
Tiffany LeeUpdate to CAD-Ray as this company has morphed into something even better and grander than it was previously. This is the company where you go to when you need a scanner or 3d printer. Their customer service is second to none and their training on sca... read moreUpdate to CAD-Ray as this company has morphed into something even better and grander than it was previously. This is the company where you go to when you need a scanner or 3d printer. Their customer service is second to none and their training on scanners is top level. Don't buy your scanners anywhere else because Cad-Ray is the only company who knows how to solve any of your problems and provides the best technical support. I recently had purchased a software to mill crowns from my medit to my MCXL. No body could get it to work.12 months in and I was resigned to it not working and not being able to mill in house. With Cad-Ray's tremendous hard work, we were able to get the milling unit synchronized to the inlab and inlab synchronized to clinux and clinux meshed to medit. I am now milling scanned crowns for the first time in about 12 months. Yay Cad-Ray, Thank you!!!!! read less - 4/01/2024
Ed BorioI was dragging my feet before purchasing my first scanner because I was apprehensive of the effort required to change to a digital workflow. Laura assured me my fears were overblown and because of her patience and exceptional training abilities it h... read moreI was dragging my feet before purchasing my first scanner because I was apprehensive of the effort required to change to a digital workflow. Laura assured me my fears were overblown and because of her patience and exceptional training abilities it has been a rewarding and relatively seamless transition to the world of scanning. I never dreamed implementation would have been this easy and its attributed to Laura's skillful training ability. The scanner is wonderful and powerful, but we would have never been able to unlock its potential without her assistance. read less - 5/07/2021
Dan MalloyExtremely good customer service. From start to finish buying my Medit was flawless and they were very helpful in offering me information. When I got my scanner I had questions and my phone calls were returned immediately. They knew my name and guided... read moreExtremely good customer service. From start to finish buying my Medit was flawless and they were very helpful in offering me information. When I got my scanner I had questions and my phone calls were returned immediately. They knew my name and guided me through what I would need. Very impressed. Would recommend! read less - 2/02/2020
Yu GanGreat company. Pioneer in digital dentistry. Armen knows his stuff. Hands down the go to scanner reseller in the US. Support and training courses are incredible. - 10/02/2022
Kurt AdamsonI was on the fence for a few years about getting into intra-oral scanning. I finally did it in the fall of 2019 and haven't looked back. I was hesitant mostly because I didn't want to spend a lot on $$$ on something that I don't end up implementing. ... read moreI was on the fence for a few years about getting into intra-oral scanning. I finally did it in the fall of 2019 and haven't looked back. I was hesitant mostly because I didn't want to spend a lot on $$$ on something that I don't end up implementing. I found that I love scanning, I feel like it has improved my quality of preps and my OCD of being able to verify accuracy. I recommend Cad-ray because they want you to succeed. They are always available. They have been through this process many times, they know what does and doesn't work. My experience is with the Medit i500 IOS. read less - 6/19/2020Benjamin Polan
A while ago I became interested in an intra oral scanner for my office especially for dental sleep medicine and TMJ appliances. I searched online for Medit and found cad ray. Laura from Cad-ray quickly responded and set up a zoom meeting so she could... read moreA while ago I became interested in an intra oral scanner for my office especially for dental sleep medicine and TMJ appliances. I searched online for Medit and found cad ray. Laura from Cad-ray quickly responded and set up a zoom meeting so she could demo the unit. Great job at helping me understand. She set up the financing and I got my unit. A few glitches with my internet speed and getting IT to help with my upload and download speeds and I was ready to go. Every time I had a question I texted Laura and almost like she was waiting for my call she responds. We it turned out my unit wasn't just right so she immediately responded we will replace you unit. Laura has been a joy to work with and the customer service given will only encourage me to do business with cad-ray again.
Benjamin Polan DMD, D,ABDSM read less - 8/27/2021Medit i700
KrystynaI recently purchased Medit scanner and my assistant and I went through training with Andy. He was great, knowledgeable and patient with us. Customer service is great! - 2/05/2023John Allen
fantastic support, I always ask random, specific to me, could be found on a training video, questions and they always quickly tell me how to fix my problem. - 6/16/2020
Zachary Breen
I purchased the Medit i700 from CAD-Ray back in May and the purchasing process, setting-up and trouble shooting has been extremely easy and straight forward with CAD-Ray. The Medit i700 is one of the best, if not the best, scanner I have used in the ... read moreI purchased the Medit i700 from CAD-Ray back in May and the purchasing process, setting-up and trouble shooting has been extremely easy and straight forward with CAD-Ray. The Medit i700 is one of the best, if not the best, scanner I have used in the past 5 years of using intraoral scanners. Recently I ran into a software issues with my scanner and I am extremely impressed with CAD-Ray and Medit's timely manner in addressing my issue. Within minutes I was on the phone with them and they had my concerns addressed and solved. I previously recommended a few colleagues to CAD-Ray and I will continue to recommend with even greater enthusiasm. I am very pleased with their customer service and the Medit i700. Thank you CAD-Ray! read less - 9/30/2021Medit i700Franco Picofazzi
Great product at an affordable price, not to mention Andy's help at customer service. Highly recommended. - 6/23/2022
Medit i500 Intra-Oral ScannerJennifer Ebner
After using the medit i500 scanner at an office as an employee, I purchased it from Cad-ray,com specifically because of their good reviews and their large, concise training library of videos. I've used CEREC as an instructor at a dental school and bo... read moreAfter using the medit i500 scanner at an office as an employee, I purchased it from Cad-ray,com specifically because of their good reviews and their large, concise training library of videos. I've used CEREC as an instructor at a dental school and bought a used Planscan, Planmill for my private office. Both were hard to learn and the fees and cost associated with training were a bitter pill to swallow after the costs to purchase. The ease of seating restoration was instant. The scanning learning curve is quick. I have easily added occlusal guard scanning, and implant scanning and will be trying a digital denture soon.
The purchase was easy, the product came quickly and the set-up videos guided me through very necessary adjustments to my Laptop I never knew I needed. Learning the new features with each FREE update is a treat. The DIY option was an extra bonus as the $2000 rebate came without having to ask for it. Cad-ray has delivered more than I expected with the purchase of the fantastic Mediti500 scanner.
I've included my cart set up. purchased from Amazon for $68. Its stable, has room for the necessities. I've taken it home and back to the office half a dozen times and it transports the scanner safely. It also keeps the cords from being run over. I haven't taken the included 2 day course but look forward too it after Social Distancing mandates are lifted. read less - 4/25/2020
Medit i500 Intra-Oral Scanner for the D.I.Y. Dentist - Get this scanner for $16,000 after our rebate!
Emerson GowerNothing but great things to say about Cad-Ray! Excellent customer support from Laura after the purchase of our Medit i500 and the cart from Damien. I’ve been very impressed with the Medit in restoring crown and bridge, as well as fixed hybrids, and... read moreNothing but great things to say about Cad-Ray! Excellent customer support from Laura after the purchase of our Medit i500 and the cart from Damien. I’ve been very impressed with the Medit in restoring crown and bridge, as well as fixed hybrids, and learning more of its capabilities each day. We have intentions to buy a second Medit shortly and will definitely be using Cad-ray again. read less - 12/13/2021
Ryan BuckwalterCouldn't have had a better experience. The training was excellent, and they've been great to work with. I recently had an issue that required a warranty claim. The process was super easy, and completely hassle free. In fact, I'm still in shock at... read moreCouldn't have had a better experience. The training was excellent, and they've been great to work with. I recently had an issue that required a warranty claim. The process was super easy, and completely hassle free. In fact, I'm still in shock at how great they were about the whole thing. I would (and do) highly recommend this company. read less - 2/09/2021Christopher Chin
This was my intro into intraoral scanning and I did research for quite awhile. The i500 and the team at Cad Ray are top notch. The company has done such a great job putting this scanner in the ranks of the premier ones. With constant updates it gets... read moreThis was my intro into intraoral scanning and I did research for quite awhile. The i500 and the team at Cad Ray are top notch. The company has done such a great job putting this scanner in the ranks of the premier ones. With constant updates it gets better and better (though I’m still behind on updates). My crowns have never been better. They drop right in with no models. I didn’t believe it but I’m loving digital dentistry. I can’t wait to go to the class after COVID calms down! read less - 6/16/2020Medit i500 Intra-Oral Scanner for the D.I.Y. Dentist - Get this scanner for $16,000 after our rebate!William Daily
Excellent support and price on our medit IOS! Bought a second one a year later. Can always count on Armen and Frank for help when we need it. - 6/16/2020
Otto HerodI received my Medit scanner a couple months ago from Cad-ray, and I can't express enough how awesome it is. I have done a ton of research and used the latest IOS from one of the big guys, and due to many software issues I was able to return that mach... read moreI received my Medit scanner a couple months ago from Cad-ray, and I can't express enough how awesome it is. I have done a ton of research and used the latest IOS from one of the big guys, and due to many software issues I was able to return that machine. And thank God, because it was so over priced and came with a $300/month support fee forever! The Medit scanner is as good or better than that one when it was working properly, and for the price it's a no brainier. read less - 9/17/2020
Kent LysgaardThis company has the best customer support I have ever experienced. I purchased the I700 Intraoral scanner and the transition from impression material to io scanner has been so easy because of Cad-Ray. I highly recommend them. The response to questi... read moreThis company has the best customer support I have ever experienced. I purchased the I700 Intraoral scanner and the transition from impression material to io scanner has been so easy because of Cad-Ray. I highly recommend them. The response to questions/issues is instantaneous even with a patient in the chair they have the capability to go online and help. Absolutely first rate. read less - 4/13/2022Kyle Coffin
Bought a medit 6 months ago and customer service has been nothing short of amazing. Always very responsive and helpful. Great scanner, too! - 6/16/2020
Suresh Goel
I have enjoyed using the Medit i500 scanner. Previously I had two 3Shape scanners, however, the yearly fees were adding up and there are no ongoing fees with the Medit. Quality is great, and support has also been solid. Overall very happy with thi... read moreI have enjoyed using the Medit i500 scanner. Previously I had two 3Shape scanners, however, the yearly fees were adding up and there are no ongoing fees with the Medit. Quality is great, and support has also been solid. Overall very happy with this purchase. read less - 2/16/2020Medit i500 Intra-Oral Scanner
Lance TimmermanImplant Planning Services Review I Am VERY experienced with "another system" but thought I would give CAD-Ray a try. At at LEAST 1/3 the fee, why not?
VERY happy. Fit GREAT, surgery was uneventful (the best kind) and I am a believer! This is a great company and great PEOPLE to... read moreI Am VERY experienced with "another system" but thought I would give CAD-Ray a try. At at LEAST 1/3 the fee, why not?
VERY happy. Fit GREAT, surgery was uneventful (the best kind) and I am a believer! This is a great company and great PEOPLE too! 5 stars aren't enough. Just like the Burj Al Arab, this is 7 star! read less - 3/03/2015
AMISH DESAIAwesome! Great support. If you are planning on getting a scanner, make sure you have Cad-Ray on your side ! - 4/20/2022
Todd HaskinThe medit is one of the best scanners on the market with the best price. Cad ray's support and training is phenomenal and they are very quick to respond. We work with Laura. Highly recommend. - 12/16/2021
Ray VollerThere’s nothing like a company with top notch support like Cadray! Frank DeLuca is one of THE most helpful, non- condescending people I’ve ever dealt with! He ALWAYS strives to make us the BEST we can be and almost immediately helps us with any quest... read moreThere’s nothing like a company with top notch support like Cadray! Frank DeLuca is one of THE most helpful, non- condescending people I’ve ever dealt with! He ALWAYS strives to make us the BEST we can be and almost immediately helps us with any questions or problems ( which are minimal with the i700!) HIGHLY recommend this company and their scanner!! read less - 10/06/2022
Brandon JonesCad-Ray customer service is great! Super responsive and efficient. - 4/01/2024
Jared GustafsonWe started our journey with CAD-Ray 3 years ago them helping us find a digital scanner that fits our practice needs and have relied on them for our 3D printing needs. They are an excellent company and I highly recommend them for their knowledge and s... read moreWe started our journey with CAD-Ray 3 years ago them helping us find a digital scanner that fits our practice needs and have relied on them for our 3D printing needs. They are an excellent company and I highly recommend them for their knowledge and service they provide. I would buy and dental tech needs from them! read less - 9/07/2022
Michael PaganoI bought a Medit i500 from Cad-Ray. The service was fantastic. This group also does ongoing training to keep you up to date on how to use the technology.I had a minor issue with hardware and Cad-Ray resolved the issues no questions asked!They have a ... read moreI bought a Medit i500 from Cad-Ray. The service was fantastic. This group also does ongoing training to keep you up to date on how to use the technology.I had a minor issue with hardware and Cad-Ray resolved the issues no questions asked!They have a very active online forum that is supportive. I wouldn’t hesitate to purchase more equipment from them! read less - 10/13/2020David Christensen
I purchased the Medit i500 from Cad-Ray December 2018. I couldn’t be happier with the scanner. The improvements Medit has made over the last 10 months are nothing short of astounding! I can’t imaging what they’ll come up with next.
As for Cad-Ray... read moreI purchased the Medit i500 from Cad-Ray December 2018. I couldn’t be happier with the scanner. The improvements Medit has made over the last 10 months are nothing short of astounding! I can’t imaging what they’ll come up with next.
As for Cad-Ray, their support has been second to none. Never have I experienced the kind of attention and help from any other company. Wether it’s with help installing, computer hardware issues or technical help they respond IMMEDIATELY!
Armen is also a huge reason why I chose Cad-Ray. No one selling a product has helped me more evolve my scanning technique. He’s quick to respond to questions and issues I feel his service is a huge reason why to buy from CAD-RAY. read less - 10/09/2019Medit i500 Intra-Oral Scanner
Dr. Terry Zervos, DDS,PA.Today I had to order new tips and Laura was EXTREMELY helpful, Cad-Ray has all the products you need for digital dentistry and they do Education, if you buy Medit scanner from them they include 12 CE training course. Cant just buy a Lamborghini you h... read moreToday I had to order new tips and Laura was EXTREMELY helpful, Cad-Ray has all the products you need for digital dentistry and they do Education, if you buy Medit scanner from them they include 12 CE training course. Cant just buy a Lamborghini you have to learn how to drive it! read less - 7/02/2020
Mike HoltWe purchased the Medit i700. With the help of CAD-Ray and their amazing support team the transition to digital scanning was simple. Laura Geney walked us through the purchase and guided us during our training with the help of Andy Nova. Laura has bee... read moreWe purchased the Medit i700. With the help of CAD-Ray and their amazing support team the transition to digital scanning was simple. Laura Geney walked us through the purchase and guided us during our training with the help of Andy Nova. Laura has been there every step of the way checking in weekly answering all of our questions. We highly recommend CAD-Ray and look forward to doing business with them in the future. read less - 7/24/2022
Bracy HaynieI have had the wonderful experience of working with Ryan at Cad-Ray for the last several weeks and he has been very professional and informative on how to properly use the Medit I700 scanner with regard to the software. I would highly recommend using... read moreI have had the wonderful experience of working with Ryan at Cad-Ray for the last several weeks and he has been very professional and informative on how to properly use the Medit I700 scanner with regard to the software. I would highly recommend using Cad-Ray and contacting Ryan for any of your Medit needs. read less - 1/27/2023ryan ku
I've been using this for almost 2 months now and I just love it. At this price point, ROI is a no-brainer. The convenience factor is amazing. I only did the DIY online training and I'm pretty confident doing the scan. I've signed up for the actual ... read moreI've been using this for almost 2 months now and I just love it. At this price point, ROI is a no-brainer. The convenience factor is amazing. I only did the DIY online training and I'm pretty confident doing the scan. I've signed up for the actual course so looking forward to seeing it's greater potentials. read less - 10/14/2019Medit i500 Intra-Oral Scanner With $1000 Rebate After 90 Days Nifty Thrifty D.I.Y Deal
Tara EricsonVery pleased with the EXCELLENT support we have received from Frank DeLuca! Loving our new Medit so far, definitely more user friendly than our previous one. - 6/02/2022
Nisarg ParikhAbsolutely a phenomenal company. Everyone you engage with is extremely knowledgeable and helpful.I’m sure they get the same questions day in, day out but they are happy to help you without being condescending. The entire team has been helpful through... read moreAbsolutely a phenomenal company. Everyone you engage with is extremely knowledgeable and helpful.I’m sure they get the same questions day in, day out but they are happy to help you without being condescending. The entire team has been helpful through phone calls, the Cad-Ray FB group, and recorded webinars. Jonathan helped me get a great deal, Laura was awesome on the webinar, Damien is always answering questions on FB, and Armen had a great in-person presentation in Dallas. 100% recommend. read less - 4/22/2022
Jason OhEveryone at CAD Ray has been amazing. Glad I chose them for my Medit and Sprint Ray purchase. Our training with Kaila was awesome. Thank you - 1/04/2023Deryck Pham
best customer service on the planet. very easy to use. and always fine tuning to make the user experience better. - 6/16/2020
Yen TranJonathan and Nick have been a great tremendous help. They went out of their ways to help me upgrade my Medit i500 even though I didn’t purchase my Medit i500 scanner from them. They are the largest Medit scanner distributor and they have the custome... read moreJonathan and Nick have been a great tremendous help. They went out of their ways to help me upgrade my Medit i500 even though I didn’t purchase my Medit i500 scanner from them. They are the largest Medit scanner distributor and they have the customers’ interest at heart. They are super responsive to phone calls, emails, and Facebook messages. I highly recommend their services read less - 9/01/2021
Miguel DeLeonI seriously can't believe the amount of support I get from Cad-Ray. I bought a medit scanner 2 months ago through Laura and she was very quick to get it shipped to me. She helped me through the whole process and ensured that I was passed to the right... read moreI seriously can't believe the amount of support I get from Cad-Ray. I bought a medit scanner 2 months ago through Laura and she was very quick to get it shipped to me. She helped me through the whole process and ensured that I was passed to the right people to train me. They were always available whenever I called, even one time I ran into an emergency after hours and Kaila picked up and saved the night. Very cool how they can remote access to my computer and guide me through as if they were right next to me.I also recently bought an Ackuretta Sol printer with Laura's help and she got me paired up with Jessica for my printer training. Jessica is so awesome! She is very knowledgeable and guided me through a lot of troubleshooting and set me up for success.Thank you guys so much!! I will always refer my friends to you all. read less - 4/13/2022
Shawn Van de VyverMost amazing customer service I've experienced with any dental office related company. It reminds me of the legend about the lady returning car tires to Nordstrom and getting a full refund, but with intraoral scanners. I've moved all my related purch... read moreMost amazing customer service I've experienced with any dental office related company. It reminds me of the legend about the lady returning car tires to Nordstrom and getting a full refund, but with intraoral scanners. I've moved all my related purchases (and all future equipment purchases) over to CAD-Ray. I couldn't ask for anything more.What else is there to say? read less - 6/02/2022
Sonrisas DentalSupport was our main concern, and we chose very carefully. Frank is 100% every step of the way - 1/25/2023Dong Lim
One of the best investments I’ve made for my office. A fraction of the cost compared to cerec. No monthly club fee. Easy maintenance. Saving a ton on lab costs. Milling and designing crowns is honestly my favorite things to do now. - 6/29/2020
IMES ICORE CORiTEC ONELauri Ann
I am about the worst person when it comes to technology. I decided to get a scanner and chose the Medit due to all the positive comments users had. I haven't used it much-the pandemic started right as I received it, however, the customer service has ... read moreI am about the worst person when it comes to technology. I decided to get a scanner and chose the Medit due to all the positive comments users had. I haven't used it much-the pandemic started right as I received it, however, the customer service has truly been amazing! I had an online training and a rep checked in with me several times to see if I needed help. I am going to do another online training soon as a refresher. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this company and scanner to anyone! read less - 6/16/2020
Milton RuizBest customer service I have ever experienced from any company I have worked with! They alway answer the phone and are ready to help with whatever question you may have. Love that I do not have to press 500 buttons to get to a live person. Bought my... read moreBest customer service I have ever experienced from any company I have worked with! They alway answer the phone and are ready to help with whatever question you may have. Love that I do not have to press 500 buttons to get to a live person. Bought my Medit from them and could not be happier with decision! read less - 12/20/2022
Ted FangPurchased a Trios 5 and the Sprint Ray Printer/Ecosystem from Cad-Ray at the end of 2022. Frank Deluca, my CAD-Ray rep, was instrumental in helping me see the value in purchasing both technologies to expand on my digital dental office. He came ac... read morePurchased a Trios 5 and the Sprint Ray Printer/Ecosystem from Cad-Ray at the end of 2022. Frank Deluca, my CAD-Ray rep, was instrumental in helping me see the value in purchasing both technologies to expand on my digital dental office. He came across as being very sincere and professional throughout the entire process. After the purchase, he even made himself available to go above and beyond what a normal dental rep would do. For instance, when I had my Sprint Ray Ecosystem installed, he set aside time on a Friday afternoon to walk me through the steps to print my first 3D study models. I would say he is one of the best dental reps that I have come across. Definitely received a 5 star experience and service from Frank. He is definitely and asset to CAD-Ray. read less - 1/25/2023
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